New Challenge: Building Middle-earth
Let global architecture be your inspiration in this challenge, where you will work with a prompts that are architectural styles, locations in Arda, or both.
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New Challenge: Building Middle-earth
Let global architecture be your inspiration in this challenge, where you will work with a prompts that are architectural styles, locations in Arda, or both.
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Building Middle-earth
Receive a prompt of an architectural style or a location on Arda—or both!—to inspire your fanworks. Read more ...
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Comment by erunyauve for Círdan the Shipwright
Círdan! I'm looking forward to the second part - I think his participation in the Nirnaeth is so important, given that Nargothrond and Doriath wouldn't have any part in it. As always, all the references are appreciated!
One minor correction - I'm pretty sure that Círdan remained at least into the Fourth Age. Appendix A has this: 'At the Grey Havens dwelt Círdan the Shipwright, and some say he dwells there still, until the Last Ship sets sail into the West. In the days of the Kings most of the High Elves that still lingered in Middle-earth dwelt with Círdan or in the seaward lands of Lindon. If any now remain they are few.' (p 1039 Kindle Edition). It's given in quotes, meaning that Pippin sourced it from documents in Minas Tirith, so 'now' is hard to pinpoint. However, Sam sails from the Havens in Shire Year 1482, or 4th Age 61.
Re: Comment by erunyauve for Círdan the Shipwright
So sorry!!! I will have to re-read and see if I can figure what you are referring to. Must be clumsy writing and/or bad grammar on my part--unless I accidentally deleted part of a sentence or paragraph or smething. I never, never intended to say he was not there until well into the Fourth Age--although that stuff will be described better in part II.
Thanks for reading.
Comment by oshun for Círdan the Shipwright
I did add a parenthetical sentence to the first paragraph to make clear my intent in the previous sentence. I think that should clarify any possible misreading.
And, after the triumph of the free peoples of Middle-earth at the end of the Third Age, he captains the last ship which leaves from the Grey Havens to sail to Elvenhome. (Although the date and circumstances of said "last ship" are not clearly stated anywhere, it would almost certainly would have left no earlier than a few years into the Fourth Age.")
Comment by IgnobleBard for Círdan the Shipwright
Very informative and well cited. I enjoy reading about Cirdan because, as you say, he shows up everywhere but I know so little about him. He's such a strong, independent character and played a larger role in events than I ever realized. Nice bio. Looking forward to the next part.
Re: Comment by IgnobleBard for Círdan the Shipwright
Thanks you so much! Thanks for reading and for taking the time to comment. I am looking forward to writing the next part! Thanks for the encouragement and also for reading parts of this one before it was finished. I cannot think of him without thinking of your pre-historic elves story (Hearts Like the Sea).
Comment by DrummerWench for Círdan the Shipwright, Part 2
Oshun, this is terrific! And two parts! There's so much here--more than one thinks, at first. It turns out he is there from the beginning, through all the stories, until the end of what we know. (In the Wench-verse, he is still here...)
Thanks for writing this; it is such a great resource!
Re: Comment by DrummerWench for Círdann the Shipwright, Part 2
I must have missed this comment before--thank you so very much. I am really happy that you enjoyed and appreciate it. I had a great time and learned a lot doing the research for this one.
Comment by erunyauve for Círdan the Shipwright, Part 2
You've done a nice job presenting an exhaustive amount of sometimes conflicting information. Laid out like this, Círdan appears even more significant in the history of Middle-earth.
While reading this, I came to a new appreciation for his wisdom (if that is possible!). Círdan intuitively arrives at the heart of the revolt of the Noldor - jealousy between the princes. Though he is giving them the benefit of the doubt - and I think that's part of his nature, not to judge - he has a better grasp of people than Thingol does. Thingol's reaction serves to excaberate those jealousies - I don't think that's his intent, but as you've presented it, the contrast between Círdan's worldliness (I'm not sure that's the right word) and Thingol's insularity with respect to people is more apparent.
Re: Comment by erunyauve for Círdan the Shipwright, Part 2
For some reason, I seem not to have received notification for this comment before now. I am surprised I did not notice. Thank you so much.
I am so glad that you got so much out of it. I certainly enjoyed doing the research.
I really like these points of your:
Círdan intuitively arrives at the heart of the revolt of the Noldor - jealousy between the princes. Though he is giving them the benefit of the doubt - and I think that's part of his nature, not to judge - he has a better grasp of people than Thingol does. Thingol's reaction serves to excaberate those jealousies - I don't think that's his intent, but as you've presented it, the contrast between Círdan's worldliness (I'm not sure that's the right word) and Thingol's insularity with respect to people is more apparent.
I think wordliness works or outwardly focused--whatever is the opposite of insular. He traveled a lot throughout his life, so his perspective was probably necessarily broader for that reason.
Comment by Keiliss for Círdan the Shipwright, Part 2
I looked to see what I'd said on first reading and am annoyed at myself to discover I never left a comment. Nothing to add, Oshun, just a thank you for such a clear and comprehensive bio. I think I've read all the sources at one time or another, but seeing his life set out in chronological order like this is wodnerful. My own assessment of Cirdan as a great lord with a good instinct for politics and the art of the practical, not just a guy who did a fine job of building ships, is underlined the whole way. He always reminded me a bit of one of those independent-minded Highland chiefs who perhaps owed blood or clan loyalty elsewhere, but still ruled his own people and made his own alliances as he saw fit. I very much enjoyed rereading this.
Re: Comment by Keiliss for Círdan the Shipwright, Part 2
Thanks so much, Keiliss! I really enjoyed working on his bio. He seems to pop up at every important place and event throughout his long history. And also have very important connections with everyone who counts! I like analysis very much. "Independent-minded" for sure!