Comments on Saltation

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I am such a fumbler. I wrote a nice longish comment on this on Live Journal and somehow accidentally lost it. Just cannot get my energy back. I did recommend it over there on a new entry of mine. I like it so much. It is thoroughly entertaining and cheeky in the best of all possible ways. I love the references of the origins of Man snd this!!

"I see only the evidence, Captain Anardil, and you saw it, too. How can you deny that those apes are so much like us? We must share a common ancestor with them. I am sure of it."

This is great stuff beginning to end.



LJ has been wonky of late.

Thanks so much for the review and the recommendation!  This concept, i.e., that the Firstborn really are not the first, is central to the Pandë!verse, and I have been dying to get it out there at some point.  For whatever reason, my Dark Muse decided now was the time.  And it's certainly a shorter bite to chew than my other recent and far longer debacle.

Thanks again! 

OMG, I love this!  The well-meaning but truly arrogant and misguided work of the Valar here, Ulmo's unheeded voice, Cuiviénen as a place of tribal conflict... I'm not feeling particularly articulate at present, but yeah, wow.  Brilliant stuff.



Very interesting! It would certainly be consistent with the later somewhat possessive attitude of the Valar towards the Eldar and their seemingly contrasting attitude to Men.

Of course, it runs counter to the idea that Elves are tied more closely to Arda than Men because of the Gift to Men, but I'm guessing by what you say here that you have quite a different angle on the Gift as well.

You also throw interesting light on Ulmö's attitudes. I enjoy how you write him and his POV.

 

 



Thanks so much, Himring, for having a read!   

Yes, this is a very different take on Tolkien's concept of the Elves being more closely tied to Arda than Men, and you would be right that I have a different angle on the Gift to Men. One may look at the latter as a twist:  as the personification of water says to Ulmo, death is part of the natural order of the world.  She sees that natural order as the Gift in her eyes (not just to Men, but to all life), and immortality is the abomination, dooming humans to last as longer than stones ("tied to Arda"), which is not natural.  Bear in mind that a significant impetus of my writing fan fiction is critical examination of some of Tolkien's concepts (like the unspoken but pervasive tone that Men are inferior to Elves), and a look at his more theological notions through the lenses of secular humanism.  Rather than write faux-scholarly essays addressing this, I much prefer to go the fan fic route.  It's a lot more fun! :^D

Ulmo is hands-down my favorite Vala.

Thanks again!

Thanks a million, Aerlinn!  More and more, I am striving to interpret scientific and technological concepts in a more metaphorical form, so I was aiming for that here.  Very glad to hear it retains the mythical quality while referencing the "out of Africa" hypothesis of human evolution.   And Water!  Yes, Water with a capital W.  There would be no life on earth without it, and it is an extraordinary substance with unique properties that allow nucleic acids to form, proteins to form, and lipids to assemble.  I figured Water deserved to be a major player so the molecule we owe so much to became a She. :^D

Hey, thanks, GG!  I doubt that this idea sits well with the majority of Tolkien fans, but it's irresistable for a diehard evolutionist like me! :^D  

Re: diverse elves.  Throughout many cultures of our primary world, there are legends of human-like being with indefinite lifespans, enhanced powers, etc. so I figured this might offer a backdrop for that. :^)

I figured that because Tolkien repeatedly stated that the Valar were demiurges and that at least one (Aulë) was capable of creating humans (and yes, I do consider Dwarves to be human - Homo khazadensis :^D) that they have the ability to tinker with other folks.

Lady Darwen! *giggles*

But seriously, the Cuivienyarna was meant to be a children's counting tale anyway, from what I recall. You did an awesome, fantastic, marvellous job making sense of the origins of the Elves, Pandë! And O.O ... non-white Elves? I already said I love you before, so consider this my proposal or something, I guess. :)

Why do the Valar always have to either meddle when they shouldn't, or sit on their bums when they actually are needed? *rolls eyes at them*

Thanks so much, K!  

Y'know, The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings were my intro to Tolkien.  I read them at ages 12 and 14, respectively.  I was also keenly interested in science at those ages, too, and among the aspects of The Lord of the Rings that I loved was the incorporation of our primary world's natural history into Tolkien's story.  It made it feel real, i.e., familiar constelllations, stars, plants, animals, etc.  Those elements made it easier for me to suspend belief when functionally immortal humans and jewelry that made one invisible appeared. ;^)

So when I read The Silmarillion some 9ish years later, my head exploded at the concepts of the Sun and Moon being made from exotic tree fruit, buying into the idea that people could live for thousands of years without sunlight (or equivalent), and that a flat earth became round.   Even though I realized this was "myth,"  Tolkien's other incorporation of realistic elements in The Silm really made these jarring.  So I was ecstatic when I first read "Myths Transformed."  Now that was the Tolkien I knew, the man who deeply appreciated natural history.  I know others are relieved he was unable to rework The Silm to accomodate the round earth cosmogony, but I have no doubt he would have come up with a very satisfying reworking of the tale.

At any rate, all that blathering is to say Saltation is my feeble attempt to give a nod to the reality Darwinian evolution in our primary world, and work it into a mythological context.  And the only explanation for the Firstborn in that context is that they are "hopeful monsters.," but of demiurgic origin (hey, if Aulë could do it...) rather than naturally evolving to such (i cannot fathom what kind of evolutionary pressure would result in functional immortality).

Yep.  Elves of Color. Coming right up.  Actually, I have alluded to that in my Bharat fics (Middle-earth!Mythic!India), but I have something else coming along in that regard.

Heh.  The Valar.  An pretty vexing pantheon.  I actually get a bigger kick out of the Valar from Tolkien's earlier writings (Book of Lost Tales, etc).  They have much more panache as fitting for such fallible demi-gods/goddesses.

Thanks again!

I can't remember where I commented on this fic or when, but I remember raving about the "Darwin meets Tolkien" plot, and how the existence of something as outlandish as an immortal race finally finds a good explanation (of course linked to well-meant meddling by the Valar). As a bonus, you get to explain the sea-longing as more than a ridiculous urge to go to live with the Valar - because why would the elves want to do that, in the first place?

So again, my hat off to you for weaving facts from the world we live in, like evolution, into the fantasy playground fill of contradictions that is Middle-earth, making it even richer and more enjoyable.

You made me felt sorry and outraged on behalf of Ulmo and his lover, the sea from where we emerged, being railroad. But hey, without the Valar we wouldn't have all these abominations characters that entertain us so much, would we?

A great story, Pandë! Sorry I didn't come to review earlier.

 



And a very, VERY belated thank you, Russa!   Tolkien's many contradictions open the way for many interpretations of his legendarium by fan fic writers, so this one was irresitable for me. :^D

Ulmo's the sole Vala whom I think spoke some sense now and then, in particular, his counsel to leave the Elves in Middle-earth and NOT ferry them over to Aman.

They shift, uncomfortable in these imperfect, corporeal forms: hands with four fingers but no opposable thumbs, noses too small, ears set too high or too low, or, in Yavanna's case, too pointed. 

 

Four fingered Valar!  I love how alien and uncanny you make them sound.  

 

There would be no more debate, and it was when Manwë and snake-eyed Námo, the keeper of the dead, laid their hands on his lover's hapless Children that Ulmo began to question the true nature and intentions of The One.


Ah, this is interesting.  I have been thinking recently about Eru, and how benign (or not) he truly is.  In fact, there are so many great concepts here - Elves who are diverse, and who are not truly the Firstborn; Lady Darwen; a number of Maiar "mingling their seed" with the Elves, and this:

 

Ulmo keeps watch when they encounter his lover's Children, their mortal kindred, who greet them with wonder and fear, and who give them new names: jinn, yaksha, kitsune, xian, elf. And Ulmo remembers his promise.

 

Such deft, and perfect, links.

Too bad you didn't venture the linguistic pretzel way with Valarin. But I'm afraid Mandos doesn't have a Valarin name—you'd have to invent this one.

I'm a fan of Manwë and Eru being depicted under a corrupted life. I wonder what made Elves (or was it Men?) 'monsters' :D